Jeff
Troiano: How did your reading go at City Lights?
Mark Swartz: It went well. I got to see some old friends, and
I met some guys from Northern Ireland who were visiting San Francisco
for a Buddhism conference.
Are you a Buddhist? You make a lot of
references to it in Instant Karma.
Nope. I was reading a great deal
about Buddhism at the time. A lot of that information came from
my Master's paper that I wrote at the University of Chicago, which
I wrote about Jasper Johns and Zen Buddhism.
Obviously,
these are tense political times. How has your tale of domestic terror
been received?
I'm often asked that question at readings. So far no one has
said they were offended by the book, and no one has been inspired
by David Felsenstein [the book's protagonist] to commit terrorism.
I don't think I'll ever know what the effect is; it's a small book.
When
did you write the book?
I finished it in 1996, and I started in '94 or '95. It started
in real time [November 5, 1994], but then I fell behind. I was working
at the University of Chicago Press as a manuscript editor of The
American Journal of Human Genetics. I was editing text that I didn't
understand, text that was written for specialists. I was responsible
for changing square brackets to parentheses, or if they went to
three decimals and our style was two, I'd fix that. Was there a
particular case of domestic terrorism that occurred in 1994 or earlier
that inspired you to write this book? There were two things that
had occurred. One was the Unabomber. Before I came to work at the
Press, he bombed the editor of the journal I was working on. Not
in Chicago, but in Berkeley, I believe. He lost his fingertips when
he opened a letter from the Unabomber.
Did
you fear that another such package might come through the mail to
you?
I suppose it occurred to me, but it seemed so random. It didn't
keep me from going to work or anything. The second event was when
a guy named Clifford Draper walked into the Salt Lake City Public
Library with a bomb on him, or at least he said he had a bomb. And
there were Tibetan Buddhist monks there performing a ritual, but
he wasn't there for them. He was sort of a Libertarian, and he wanted
Utah to revoke its motorcycle helmet laws. Draper took hostages,
but one of the hostages was a S.W.A.T. officer who called "everybody
down" and shot Clifford Draper dead. And that was that.
Can
you really use a curling iron as a detonating device?
Yeah, that's what he did. The idea behind the dead-man switch
is that as long as the two elements are separate, the circuit is
broken. But if you release it, the two elements come together and
the circuits complete, like a battery or something. I got the idea
from Clifford Draper, who had a curling iron. There's a graphic
of a detonating device in the book that is not a curling iron. I
got that from The Anarchists' Cookbook, which resurfaces in the
news every few years. It was written by William Powell, and my copy
was published by Barricade Books in 1971. The introduction has quotes
from Nixon, Agnew, and New York Mayor Jon Lindsay.
Which
aspects of your personality do you share with David Felsenstein?
Before I began writing the book I'd been spending a lot of time
in the library, just sort of fishing around for things. I'm not
sure when it came to me that the notes were headed toward this novel,
but that made it a lot more exciting. So I had this character in
mind, and I felt like I was reading over his shoulder, and he was
reading over mine. I would find things that I might not necessarily
have looked for but that David Felsenstein would look for. He went
to grad school, and I went to grad school. He's Jewish, and I'm
Jewish. So we share some things, but I do not have a violent personality
or temper or anything like that.
Do
you footnote as painstakingly as David?
It was a habit from grad school, and I still write down quotes
in my own diary, but now I sometimes leave out the page number and
the exact reference. For example, earlier today I was rereading
One Hundred Years of Solitude, and I copied the last sentence into
my journal because it has the phrase "one hundred years of solitude"
in it, and I didn't even bother to footnote it. It's so obvious.
Do
you have a real interest in Dada?
I love reading those histories. Marcel Duchamp is one of the
great artists; so many things have come from him. I love their willingness
to do crazy things and court destruction and anarchy. Was there
a Dada artist in particular who committed violent acts and viewed
them as art? Jean Tinguely came later, but he blew things up, like
TNT in the desert, and he did something at the Museum of Modern
Art in the '80s with a machine, motors, and whirring parts. It was
supposed to be a chain-reaction device, but it caught fire a few
seconds after it started, and the fire department had to come and
put it out.
The
book contains several beautiful quotes about libraries. Are you
a big fan of libraries?
Yeah, definitely. I've always gone to libraries. I think I have
fewer books in my home than most writers. I don't have any better
memory than anyone else, but I like the concept of allowing the
book to go back where it came from.
Was
it frustrating getting this book into print?
It was beyond frustrating. I finished it in '95 or '96, and
I was sending out little parts trying to get them into journals.
And then it lay dormant in '98 and '99 and 2000. Then my agent,
Rob Preskill, was pitching something else to City Lights, and they
said, "What else do you have?"
Obviously,
since Sept. 11, 2001, terrorism has become such a huge focus. When
was the decision made to publish Instant Karma?
Elaine Katzenberger is my editor at City Lights. For several
days after Sept. 11, everyone was contacting their friends in New
York to make sure they were still there. So I heard from her, and
I confirmed to her I was still alive, but then there was no further
communication for a period of months, and I didn't know if it was
insensitive to bring it up. So I let it lie for a while before writing
her a letter explaining that the book was more about the love of
libraries than about terrorism. And if the book contains an element
of terrorism, there's a whole body of literature about terrorism,
and we'd hate to see that disappear. I don't think she ever considered
not publishing it, but she was concerned about the timing.
What
can be learned by reading your story of David Felsenstein?
I don't have any insights into certain kinds of terrorists'
personalities, but that sort of loner, Unabomber-style, domestic
terrorist may be being overlooked these days. It's certainly an
ongoing threat. Someone brought to my attention that the FBI is
now subpoenaing library records, which seems like a gross violation
of privacy. Let me say it this wayif you saw a record of what David
Felsenstein checked out of the library, you'd have no inkling of
an idea what he was planning, so that's a futile gesture.
So
are you saying that David could be any of us?
Most librarians I've talked to have a couple of guysand they
do tend to be menwho put away the stacks after everyone leaves.
Sometimes it's obvious that they're researching UFOs or do-it-yourself
lawsuits, but for most of them it's just a random selection of books
every day.
I
found myself sympathizing with David. I liked the gentle, flirtacious
way he was with Eve and Mrs. Bryars. Are you concerned that some
readers will be charmed into forgetting that David is a terrorist
with an evil plan?
He definitely has an evil plan, but I'm not sure that he's actually
a terrorist. In the story, you're going along with David all the
way until the end, and then there's a sort of U-turn. If he actually
does blow up the library, how can we possibly read notes he's written
in this book? The book would be gone. It's all in his diary; not
only is it a work of fiction written by me, but it's a subjective
document written by him, and the untrustworthy narrator is one of
the oldest tricks in the book. But getting back to the question
I was dodging, some people sympathized with the Unabomber; some
things in his manifesto seemed to make sense, especially for people
who were already paranoid about technology or computers. Maybe they
had some sort of romantic notion of him alone in his cabin, struggling
with these issues. But even those who sympathized with him on a
human level abhorred the murders he committed.